Bronwen Maddox: World Briefing
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If there is a test of political instinct, it might as well be spotting a man in a Newcastle United shirt in a crowd in a park on a flying visit to a foreign capital. “Oh, a Newcastle supporter,” said David Miliband, on his first trip to Romania, bounding up to the man, a local student, who looked bemused to find himself, walking by the lake, accosted by the British Foreign Secretary with the Mayor of Bucharest in tow. “You’re green, aren’t you?” asked Miliband, turning to the Mayor, striking a favourite theme of climate change, a constant strand of this week’s four-day trip to Romania, Turkey, Italy and Spain. “I am,” said the Mayor, pointing out that Bucharest was about to receive a torrent of European Union money to invest in environmental technology — earning laughter from Miliband.
The tour of Europe’s southern fringe, only the third trip Miliband has made in his new post , is a platform for arguing for the expansion of Europe’s borders and for Turkey’s eventual membership. That is a cause about which Miliband is passionate, and where Britain is making itself Turkey’s chief champion.
In Turkey yesterday, Miliband became the first Foreign Minister to meet the new President, Abdullah Gül, controversial for his Islamist-tinged past and the fierce opposition of the generals. “It’s great that Turkey has broken through the barrier that says Islam is incompatible with democracy and a secular public realm,” said Miliband. “My job as a politician is to win the argument that Britain is better off with Turkey in the EU.” That isn’t easy. Part of Miliband’s argument is that if the EU can let Romania in, then why not Turkey? Both are poor and rural, he says. But even Romania, which entered the EU on January 1 with Bulgaria, is still held at arm’s length; Britain has imposed seven-year restrictions on workers from both countries — a cause of great resentment.
Miliband said that Britain would reconsider the labour curbs at the end of this year. But this seems a formula, much as Romanians suspect, for not reconsidering them at all. Given public hostility to immigration and the unexpected arrival of hundreds of thousands of Poles since 2004, Britain is wary about letting in more, and Romania’s reputation for corruption does not help.
Since joining, Romania has alarmed Brussels by dragging its heels on reform, although growth remains high. Miliband said that he heard “no suggestion from the Romanians that they feel any slackening of pressure to live up to the mandate,” from business as well as Brussels.
Miliband is dismissive of those who say that Turkey, Muslim and huge, is simply not European. “This is a massive test of whether the EU is a closed, Christian club.” He added that the EU needs Turkey for security and help on climate change. But he will try to persuade Turkey to “breathe more deeply” on Cyprus, the main issue which has stalled talks.
Trips by any Foreign Secretary are an exercise in gregariousness with the hope of some future use for the capital acquired. Miliband, like Jack Straw, has a deliberate informality, albeit in a younger, bouncier model, but is far more fluent. In a two-minute video diary for the YouTube website, he showed a faultless populist touch, tucking facts about Romania into subclauses, while portraying the visit as full of adrenalin. “The pressures as Foreign Secretary to become stuffy and grandiose are quite large,” he said. “You go to work in a big building full of murals of 19th-century victories and disasters.” Although more cerebral than Straw, he too readily presses examples into service of his grand themes. Like Margaret Beckett, his predecessor, he asserts that “climate change is foreign policy — it will cause the wars of the future”, but is impatient at requests for substantiation. Romanian audiences were told that they must care about global warming given their recent floods and droughts, but asked whether he could show that climate change was the cause, he said: “No, I haven’t got any scientific evidence.”
It is a curious phenomenon that you have to go to Turkey to hear the voice of the British Government in full-throated advocacy of the virtues of Europe — one which might amuse France and Germany, getting ready for another tussle with Britain next month over the constitutional treaty, and who are both opposed to Turkish entry. In Romania and Turkey this week, Miliband was preaching to the converted on his vision of Europe (and to the tolerant, at least, on climate change). He has a more sceptical audience at home.
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"I'll support Turkey's membership to the EU if: 1 - The Turkish State returns to the Catholic Church all the property it once had when Turkey was European (Byzantium"
Er -Fabio I trust you are referring to the Eastern Catholic Church-not the lot in Rome!
Ian Mack, Edinburgh, UK
It doesn't really matter that Turkey is mostly outside Europe, or that it's culture isn't European, or that democracy in that country seems a bit uncertain, or even that most Europeans don't think they should become a member. It doesn't matter because the USA probably wants them to be a member, probably for short term & ill thought out reasons, and when has the British government not done the USA's bidding? And Westminster wonders why people aren't voting any more!
Cirep G Nol, London,
without TURKEY, the EU will find itself alone some day against India, Russia, China and Brasil and İt will be late to recall Turkey because Turkey will not need any help from the EU.
The UK thinks the world globally not only from Europe that the difference between the effectiveness of the foreign policy of UK and FR and DE
Halil , Ankara, Turkey
Perhaps your article should go on to mention the heavy bias in BBC reporting - on some days Turkey takes up as many as five articles on its Europe online news page. Witness Mark Mardells standing and prlonged championing and softening up of us Brits. Turkey is not a European country. It is a Mongol culture that took over a European country some six hundred years ago. It is on a war footing with Cyprus and has tens of thousands of troops based there. It continues to invade Greek airspace hundreds of times a year and it restricts religious freedom by confiscating Orthodox assets and making legal proclamations about the value of the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Did I say that it was not a European country ?
spencer, London, UK
A fair betetr idea would be for us to strike up a partnership with Turkey. Turkey would then stay outside the EU (it will never get in anyway) and we can join Turkey. Anyone who knows German politics knows full well it will never get it past the electorate.
Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK
Les of Southport: "saving our nations heritage, reclaiming our civil liberties "
The European Union has done more to protect national heritage through grants and protection areas throughout the Union than the English government, who is only interested in big business and profit, ever would.
As for civil liberties: it is only the UK who has OPTED OUT of the charter on human rights within the EU.
Thanks to the EU English people have more liberties and freedom throughout the Union than ever before.
Peter GODDARD, Epsom, England, EU
Les, from Southport, you make it sound as if it is the EU which has imposed the Big Brother society on the UK. Mind you, Britain is the most watched country in the world and nowhere in Europe can you see such a phenomenon! Stage a revolution all you want but towards Whitehall, not Brussels. That's where your problems lie.
Filip , Singapore,
It's to be expected that a Party like Labour which is happy to see millions of Muslims et al pour into this country in spite of the opposition of the majority of (native) British people, would be delighted at the thought of a country of more than 70 million Turks given a blanket right of entry to the UK. They can then bring forward by decades the date when Britons will be a minority in their own land, and can say "we can't stop them, they're part of the EU". In the meantime, It would very conveniently cancel out all those Labour & Conservative voters who have had enough, and are switching to the BNP.
L Stewart, Spalding, England
I suggest Miliband spend a year in a remote, rural Turkish village. If he then still thinks their culture, education and skills are of great (net!) benefit to Britain, then let him speak. Otherwise he could always take note of the German attitude as they already have 2 million Turks. Do they want more, if not, why not?
htp, Llandudno, UK
Your last paragraph is spot on. Milbank would be better serving the interests of those back home if he exposed the virtues of the EU "at home" and OPPOSED Turkish entry. The Turks are NOT European, so why bring them into our European Union, and dilute the European Judo-Christian values.
If you let the Turks in you may as well allow Israel in too.. Nothing personal: BUT THEY ARE NOT EUROPEAN (although one might argue that Israel shares more of our values).
The truth is that Milbank thinks that playing to the Euro-septics and weakening the EU is a positive position: it's certainly not a very intellectual one.
Peter GODDARD, Epsom, England, EU
It is obvious that Turkey cannot convince old generation of Europeans of its European credentials. They come from a generation where there were clear enemies, whether it was Germans for Brits, Brits for Germans, Brits and Germans for French, etc. Now, they found the perfect other: Turks and they want to discharge their frustrations with the new world on to it. Turkey instead should concentrate on the younger generation of Europeans. It is already part of Erasmus programme and it should make the most of it. Regarding to European geography, the original inventors of the word, Greeks, never meant it for the lands which now proudly claim they are part of it. They just did not know such lands and people existed. Nevertheless, if Turkey's lack of European land and difference in religion is a problem, it could always be solved by other means.
Ali Toker, Ankara, Turkey
Well we can be as sceptical as we like at home but we ain't gonna get to vote on Europe that's obvious, as for Turkey it seems the lessons still haven't been learnt by Miliband and his ilk about importing alien cultures (or invading Countries with alien cultures) France and Germany seem to have taken on board that we don't need to open another Pandora's box . Did Miliband in his boundless enthusiasm dare to mention Cyprus?.
Simon, Leeds, U.K.
Your last paragraph is spot on. Milbank would be better serving the interests of those back home if he exposed the virtues of the EU "at home" and OPPOSED Turkish entry. The Turks are NOT European, so why bring them into our European Union, and dilute the European Judo-Christian values.
If you let the Turks in you may as well allow Israel in too.. Nothing personal: BUT THEY ARE NOT EUROPEAN (although one might argue that Israel shares more of our values).
The truth is that Milbank thinks that playing to the Euro-septics and weakening the EU is a positive position: it's certainly not a very intellectual one.
Peter GODDARD, Epsom, England, EU
Miliband has a lot to learn about British foreign policy in relation to the EU, and particularly Turkey's accession to it. If the UK persists with its Turkish obsession then it will pay heavily for it, not least in terms of at least an additional 13 million pounds sterling to cover the accession. France and Germany must be laughing all the way to the European bank: after all, Tony Blair surrendered 7 million of Mrs Thatcher's cash the last time it advocated EU expansion. Only the Greek government is - on the surface at least - as enthusiastic about Turkey's EU membership as the UK but for very different reasons. Like the vast majority of EU citizens, the Greek-on- the-street (65% the last time of asking) opposes it. Turkey's destiny lies in the East not the West since the latter has become increasingly atheistic and secular. It's not its Christian past which makes the West incompatible but its irreligious present. Turkey is moving in precisely the opposite direction: to Islam!
Dr David Green, Athens, Greece
EU with sharia law. Insane.
Helen, Northants,
Why should Turkey not join the European Union? Well, how about Turkey not being in any sense a European country? You may say that Turkey is nowhere near the North Atlantic yet is a member of NATO. The difference is that whereas the purpose of NATO is the specific one of collective defence, membership of the EU would inevitably confer on Turkey full and unrestricted rights, including immigration. Would Mr Miliband please hazard a guess as to the number of dirt poor eastern Anatolian peasants who might like to migrate to what in material terms would be paradise, then multiply it by 40, as in the case of Poland. Were Turkey to join the EU, there would be no intellectual case to make against the eventual entry of Lebanon, a former French colony , nor all the North African countries. If Miliband wishes to rename the European Union to be more inclusive without speaking geographical and historical nonsense then let him say so. But in this case we are already all members of the United Nations.
Howard, Richmond,
The Millibands of this world need to be banished to their own little island where they can waffle on about global warming fantasies all they wish, infact the sooner the better, before they have given all control of our lives over to the EU monster-state. Those of us who are left can then get on with saving our nations heritage, reclaiming our civil liberties and reinstating 'real' policing and penalties, instead of Big Brother cameras and pathetic fines.
Are the government ever going to listen to the people or will it take a revolution to remove us from the grasp of the EU.
Les, Southport, England
I'll support Turkey's membership to the EU if: 1 - The Turkish State returns to the Catholic Church all the property it once had when Turkey was European (Byzantium). Including Santa Sophia Cathedral and promote all other faiths within Turkey as we do in secular Western Europe, where Turkey wants to belong. 2 - When the Catholic Church is allowed to reopen all it's seminaries, have the same fiscal treatment as the Mosques and the consecration of priests and the conversion of souls should be allowed and protected, as it is in the secular Western Europe. 3 - When I see Christian Churches operatin in Turkey in the same amout as I see Mosques in Western Europe. 4 - The UK must put his money where it's mouth is: join the Euro zone. 5 - I want to be able to celebrate all of the above at the "Gay Pride Istanbul". That day I'll believe Turkey is serious about belonging to the EU and the UK is really committed to the advancement of the EU cause and not just dilute it.
Fabio C, London, UK
His is a voice in the wilderness. One voice in 27. He'll get nowhere. Now if the UK were an independent nation we could trade with and help who we liked he would sign a free trade agreement and that would be that.
R Mason, London, UK
Miliband is supposed to be so clever, isn't he? May be,even clever people need a reality check. Several EU countries are committed to a referendum on enlargement. Turkey is not going to get in as things stand at the moment. Not a chance. Miliband is acting as one of these bureaucrats who just want to do things over the head of Europeans. A bit of democracy is going to put a stop on that.
As for climate change, that particular propanganda bubble is going to deflate sooner rather than later and a lot of people are going to look very silly indeed. Even clever people...
John, London, UK
Your last paragraph is spot on. Milbank would be better serving the interests of those back home if he exposed the virtues of the EU "at home" and OPPOSED Turkish entry. The Turks are NOT European, so why bring them into our European Union, and dilute the European Judo-Christian values.
If you let the Turks in you may as well allow Israel in too.. Nothing personal: BUT THEY ARE NOT EUROPEAN (although one might argue that Israel shares more of our values).
The truth is that Milbank thinks that playing to the Euro-septics and weakening the EU is a positive position: it's certainly not a very intellectual one.
Peter Goddard, Epsom, England, EU
Yes- like we really need another potential 70 million Islamic terrorists flooding our borders!!! Just how out of sync with the feelings of the general British population can our idiotic politicians possibly be??
Turkey is not European - not geographically -95% is in asia/middle east, not economically and not culturally-including its (un)democratic institutions and religion!
One issue on which the French, Germans and indeed the Pope are 100% correct-no Turkey in Europe.
Ian Mack, Edinburgh, UK
i think it will take civil unrest
terry sullivan, London, England
Of course David Milliband is supporting the entrance of Turkey to the EU. The Labour party is reported to receive a great deal of money from the Muslims Friends of Labour who are said to influence policy at a high level. I do not believe that the Labour party would be so receptive to influence from people living in England who describe themselves as English.
Jonathan, Birmingham,
"dismissive of those who say that Turkey ... is simply not European"
I see the Times World Atlas doesn't feature in the House of Commons library then! Turkey, apart from one little bit, is in Asia. But then, if Milliband had any education beyond political necessity he would have known that it is also called "Asia Minor". No amount of wishful thinking by a politician is going to turn a soundbite into a historical reality or alter a geographical boundary.
Maybe Milliband thinks that putting every trouble spot in the Middle East on the political border of Europe will make it easier to march troops into Iran or Iraq the next time someone threatens the oil supply?
KR, Stockport,
If Turkey is accepted into the EU, I hope we are not going to have a repeat of the fiasco that occured when Poland et al joined and our wonderous politicians gave out figures on the amount coming to this country that were woefully undercast. This time Mr Miliband we want the same restrictions put in place by other EU countries and a proper asssessment of the numbers of those thinking of coming here. Not another load of Labour spin and then we find a couple of million putting more strain on Housing, the NHS and more importantly taking jobs away from Brits because they will do the work for peanuts and send their money back and not redistribute it into the economy.
Jeff Cox, London, England
Geaographically, Romania is located in Europe, Turkey is not except Istambul and a small area. Romania belongs to Europe, Turkey does not.
Dacia Felix, Varese, Italy