Frances Gibb, Legal Editor
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The full Islamic veil should not be worn in courts, senior judges have decided.
New guidelines, expected shortly with the backing of the Lord Chief Justice, Britain’s most senior judge, will make clear that the preference is for full veils not to be worn in courts and tribunals.
But judges have taken the precaution of seeking legal advice before issuing their guidance to ensure that it complies with the law — and is not vulnerable to legal challenge.
The sensitive guidance also stops short of a prohibition on veils, originally favoured by some judges, and steers a careful path between judges who favour a ban and women lawyers and others who want flexibility. Instead, the final decision will be left to judges and magistrates in court, who can permit the full veil if it does not jeopardise the “interests of justice”.
The guidance, being finalised by the Judicial Studies Board’s equal treatment advisory committee, will apply to all those attending a court or tribunal, including the judge, magistrates, lawyers, jurors, witnesses and court staff. Judges can ask for a veil not to be worn if there is a reasonable objection, such as a witness or defendant not being able to hear properly.
It also toughens up the “case by case” approach issued in November, when courts were given interim guidance after a legal representative at an immigration tribunal in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, refused to remove her full-face veil, or niqab, when asked to do so by the judge.
Shabnam Mughal was dressed completely in black with the full-face veil leaving only her eyes visible. The judge had complained that he could not hear her “as well as I would like”. The case was adjourned, and then continued with different legal representatives.
The guidance is likely to be welcomed by legal professional bodies, who see it as nonprescriptive. The Law Society of England and Wales, which represents 100,000 solicitors, said that, in its view, the wearing of full-face veils dids not breach any professional conduct rules.
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As a male is there any reason why I shooud not cover myself in a similar way? Equal treatment - maybe also to go through passport control.
James, London, England
What is all this nonsense about, of course anyone who wants to live in this Country must abide with it's rules. You cannot go into a court and be covered from head to toe it is inconceivable that anyone should think it is o kay to do so. These Muslim woman should not be here, plain and simple, European women do not wear a veil except on a hat for a wedding. Not only do they look frightening but they are making themselves unwelcome. There should be a law that states anyone who wants to live in the U.K. must NOT at anytime be seen in public wearing a veil. Their faces must be shown at all times.
If their men do not like it, too bad. Nothing in their religion says they have to be covered like this.
Jean Kaye ex pat, boynton beach, u.s.a. Florida.
If these immigrants can't comply to our christian way of life then they should be made to leave Britain. These consistant comprimises are bringing about "rivers of blood". Shame on those who keep giving in to these foreigners. How can we ever build Jerusalem in Englands green and plesant land?
Eric Price, Lichfied, Staffs.,
It's a part of Western culture, ingrained from birth, that anyone wearing a mask to cover their face is a crook or a bandit, which they very often did in the past. Unfortunately, and perhaps sub-consciously, the veil may be seen as someone trying to hide themselves and are immediately suspect.
There is an awful lot more in moving to another country other than just being there and having expectations about ones rights learned in one's own country and culture. A new country was'nt just formed and immigrants are not being properly introduced to their new country and it's ingrained, established customs.
Obviously there is going to be conflict from sheer ignorance, lack of knowledge, unless they are properly and thoroughly informed before they decide to move and can make an intelligent decision as to whether they are prepared be adapt or not. It may well be they would be better staying where they are.
Peter Richardson, Kippens, NL Canada
No viels? Okay lets start up another uniform for court.
How about a face full of studs and surgical implants from top to toe? Never mind if she might look different from any legal documentation because, whopee, she's a free westerner now! Kudos to the reformed free Muslim woman adopting western values!
Come on Muslim sisters, lets all dye our hair blonde! Lets all get boob/hip/face implants all in one go! Lets go for body reshaping! Lets go for skin tintening! Lets fill our cabinet with expensive cosmetics and creams! and while we're at it lets all go on a size zero diet! At least we won't be mistken for terrorists then. We'll be fully westernized and be able to make it to Page 3 as a local beauty! Yayay!
For all you feminists reading this about to reach for your guns, now you know how it feels to be painted with the same brush. shut up and broaden your perspectives.
In the meantime I'm off to burn my bra.
darkgold, london,
Even in Islam the wearing of full cover black is an extreme intepretatin of the rules. The wearing of the veil as well is a fanatic one. Why should the British public be expected to tolerate this?
As Islam demands moderation in dress there can be no excuse either socially politically or religiously for this anti social excess in the public display of their faith.
D Cage, Highworth, UK
One comment indeed. On the one side, the British don't like to make a scene. Its how we're built. However, things do bubble away under the surface. On the other hand, the Muslim community give the appearance of liking to 'make a scene'. They also hold a primary allegance to a man who died in the middle of a desert many miles away, 1400 years ago. As part of this allegance, some of them like to insist that their women folk cover up. It has become an increasingly political statement so to do. Despite this provocation, the British attitude is one of 'live and let live' which will remain unless we become victims of suicide bombers at which point the debate will flourish in many different directions about the primacy of security rights. Otherwise, middle England is generally far too passive to do anything drastic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Its too much to hope that daft religions will die out soon, but you can just let the child have its tantrum.
mal, brum, uk
One comment...One comment? Is that it? A polemic article posted at the Times of London, 5 days ago and all it gets is ONE comment? One single comment and from the USA!!!
What is going on here? Does the Times of London lacks readers or the nation is dead?
Is that it? None cares? Is everyone gone to their houses in the south of France and left England to the foreigners?
Fabio C, London, UK
If Muslim people want to live and work permanently in Western countries like the United Kingdom, United States, Canada, and countries in Western Europe, then they should understand that they need to adapt to the customs of their adopted countries. This would include Muslim women dressing more appropriately for their communties and workplaces.
I'm tired of Muslim people moving into Western countries, and then "expecting" their new country to adapt to them. It's the other way around. If Muslims want to be accepted, they need to stop demanding that customs and laws be changed to fit their Islamic ideals and values. As the old saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
Therefore, Muslim women should not "expect" to be able to wear their full veils in the courtrooms. If they don't like Westernized society customs, they can leave and go live in a Muslim country instead.
J. S. C., Monmouth, Maine, USA