Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
2 for 1 tickets to Casablanca, this coming Monday
Trains and tracks could be reunited and put under public control for the first time since privatisation, under plans to make Scotland a test case for the rest of the rail industry, The Times has learnt.
Network Rail, the not-for-profit company created by the Government to run Britain’s tracks, has held secret talks with Scottish Labour politicians about taking control of trains north of the Border. The move would reverse the fragmentation of the industry after British Rail was broken up and sold off in the mid1990s.
Labour’s Scottish election manifesto, published on Tuesday, contains a thinly veiled reference to the idea of Scotland pioneering a new structure for the rail industry. It states: “The case for running the Scottish franchise on a not-for-profit basis needs to be fully examined as part of the preparation for the next franchise.”
The Times has learnt that Iain Coucher, Network Rail’s deputy chief executive, who will step up to the chief executive position in July, has held private talks about Network Rail taking over the franchise. He met senior Labour politicians at the party’s Scottish conference in November and indicated that Network Rail would be willing to cooperate with plans to reintegrate Scotland’s tracks and trains.
Scotland is seen as the ideal place for such a test because its network is largely self-contained, with more than 90 per cent of services run by one company, First ScotRail. The only exceptions are the crossborder long-distance trains run by Virgin and GNER, which would not be part of the test.
The new integrated operation could be introduced in 2011, when First ScotRail’s franchise is due to be renegotiated.
Bristow Muldoon, the chairman of Labour’s Scottish Policy Forum, said that bringing tracks and trains back under the control of a single body, serving in the public interest rather than generating profits for shareholders, could bring huge benefits. “I believe there is a high possibility that reintegrating tracks and trains would deliver better value for money,” he said.
“The savings could be reinvested in improving the rail infrastructure or in reducing fares for passengers. There could also be benefits to the taxpayer in terms of reducing the amount of subsidy needed for services. It is clear that Network Rail would be a possible operator of such a model.”
Mr Muldoon, who was also the chairman of the Scottish Parliament’s transport committee before the Parliament was dissolved ahead of next month’s election, said that Labour was not opposed ideologically to private sector involvement in the railways but wanted to find the best way of operating the system in the interests of passengers and taxpayers.
Britain’s rail network will consume more than £5 billion in subsidy this year, more than three times what British Rail received. Public funding was supposed to be phased out under privatisation but has risen sharply in the past ten years, despite a doubling in the total amount paid in fares by passengers over the same period.
ScotRail is one of the most highly subsidised franchises, receiving £1.9 billion over the seven years to 2011.
A Network Rail spokesman said the company would be willing to consider operating trains in Scotland if that was proposed by the Scottish Executive.
Gerry Doherty, the general secretary of the TSSA, the white-collar rail union, said: “We welcome this proposal because Scotland is a very good place to test the benefits of a single public-interest operator running tracks and trains.
“If it works, as we believe it will, it could be extended to cover the whole of Britain and finally end the damaging fragmentation caused by privatisation.”
The Conservatives at Westminster are also developing proposals for reintegrating tracks and trains, but they favour splitting the network into regions, each controlled by a single private company.
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Anything that gets First out of the equation will be a result.
We experienced their customer care last week when due to the edict of their college educated director, who probably didn't know what a train was until she joined them, we fell foul of their five minute wait policy at Inverness coming in from the Kyle of Lochalsh.
Result - a coach down the A9 to a missed connection in Edinburgh - revised route via Carstairs found and a final arival back home at 00.30.
Now we know what they have done to previously impeccable Highland hospitality Muir and his cohorts will not be on our christmas card list
Frank, Manchester,
Finally an end to the Thatcher era. This should improve our rail system no end.
Ben, York,
Although Mr Wilard seems to have appointed himself Voice of England, I strongly disagree. Most of my friends, family and colleagues always travel by train. The train network can take you from one town or city to another, and it's your responsibility to take further public transport (bus, tram etc.) to get where to need to go.
I'm sorry, Mr Wilard, but the national rail service cannot be at everyone's beck and call. If you arrange your journey in advance, you can incorporate the set train times into your planning. I took the train from Peterborough all the way up to Leuchars, Fife, a couple of weeks ago. The train was 15 minutes late, but its interior was clean, modern and light. I couldn't even hear the engine. How much did this 350-mile journey cost? £13.50. I arrived at Leuchars on time.
Thank you, GNER, for yet another excellent journey.
Robert Williams, Cambridgeshire, UK
It looks so easy. But successful re-nationalisation of British Rail is also a question of good management that is supported by the goverment. It will only work, when you make sure that an excellent management is aware of the customers' needs and wants, that longterm investments are done and that sufficient public funding is given to the railway business.
My Northern German experiences with one big national railway company (Deutsche Bahn - DB ) are mixed, as many improvements in regional passenger services and freight services could only take place because other railway companies stepped in when DB planned to close down lines or services or permanently ignored any attempt to improve capacities of overcroweded oldfashioned trains. Nowadays, the capacitie of German railway lines that are still runned by DB are too low for more freight trains .... lack of mislead investments for decades ...
Ingo Fanssen, Bremen, Germany
The rail unions and the greatest majority of rail staff warned of the dangers of privatisation at the start of the 1990's. It is a pity that no one listened. All the money that has been given out to shareholders could have gone onto modernising the system. We might not have been in the mess we are transport wise if someone had listened to the people who know.
D.S.Parkes, Preston, Lancashire
The self-respecting English won't pay to be taken in cattletrucks, at inconvenient times, from somewhere they can't easily reach (or park at) to another place they don't want to go to - unless there is absolutely no alternative. What the rail network needs is the imagination to overcome these four obstacles.
Rob Wilard, Reading,
I wonder if they will also manage to clean the toilets on board, clean the floors properly, & get heating on the trains to Inverness, along with comfortable (draught free) seating?not the stupid railcars, on the long haul trains, from Edinburgh to Inverness, which from experience are terrible!
Also Buffet car, & meals at affordable prices, & staff training taught by GNER. Their rolling stock, (although elderly),from experience, is always clean, food is good, and the train staff seem to know how to wear their uniform properly,& with pride, & are always courteous. I suppose this would be too much to hope for!
The idea of all the railway run & maintained by railwaymen, who understand the complexities of railway travel, & safety , makes sense, but I cannot understand why it has taken so long to realise we should not have changed in the first place, causing so many accidents, many fatal!
Jim Stewart, Anstruther, SCOTLAND
I suspect many of your correspondents have forgotten, if they are old enough to remember, what a complete shambles British Rail was before it was privatised : Old rolling stock, constant breakdowns, constant strikes, frequent accidents, utterly demotivated staff and management, an even more complete disregard for the traveller. Believe me, it was no better than now, and in many respects far worse.
We used to subsidise our nationalised industries though extortionate income tax. In some cases we used to provide the equivalent capital value of the entire industry in subsidies from our taxation every single year. If a programme of renationalisation is to be undertaken, then it needs some radical and clear thinking and planning not to dump us back into the 1970's scenario.
Who will make it work - this New Labour shower? Don't make me laugh. Everything they touch turns to dross.
Martin, London,
With regards to Mr. Wilson's comments Japan is actually a good example of privatisation working!
The Japanese National Railways were privatised in 1987 to address its £200 billion GBP debt caused blamed by contempory commentators on political interference.
JNR was split into six vertically intergrated passenger compaies (ie. track and trains managed together) and one freight operator who had access rights to the lines owned by the six. These firms had life tenur (no franchises). By 2000 three of the new companies had paid off their share of the JNR debt following rationalisation of assets and expanison into non-rail activities such as mobile communications, buses, hotels, restaurants and aviation.
Gareth Houghton, Nottingham, UK
Could somebody answer the following question please?
If this sector is now private then why is it still subsidised so heavily and where does this money go?
Perhaps it is the case that with £5b flowing into the rail system every year different private companies invovled in it simply don't feel the need to compete (and hence reduce prices)?
Thanos, Colchester,
The way it was nationalised was stupid - even Dave Cameron acknowledges that. But I do remember how poor services really were when it was a nationalised entity. I also remember a total lack of investment (remember the APT), strikes & shoddy service. The only good thing was the timetable - at least you find your way around it OK compared with today's disaster. Perhaps we should get the Japanese to come and run our system. The old style British Rail was poor-to-OK........just - but there was no investment going in.
Phil, Preston,
Mike Mitchell in Spalding - your comment on the initials DB is interesting but also suggests you haven't travelled that much with them. Germany is a big country and to get anywhere distant you have to take a fast train - and they are as expensive as anything in Britain. An hour on the ICE costs 30. With the exception of a card that's only worth buying if you travel a lot, there are no special discounts for buying ahead. Even local travel has never struck me as being that cheap and often not that reliable, with trains often being overcrowded and dirty.
the magic monkey, Heidelberg, Germany,
Nationalised British Rail had problems, there is no disputing that. But what people overlook is this: by the 1980s, long before privatisation took effect, B.R. was finally managing to unshackle itself from decades of visionless management and obstructive trade-unions. Under managers such as Chris Green, Ron Cotton and Bob Reid, British Rail was starting to come right. Scotrail in particular (founded by Chris Green) was quietly but steadily moving ahead. But along came privatisation and kicked it in the guts. Privatisation has cost a fortune, delivered a shambles and turned the railway clock back at least 15 years. It should never have happened and cannot be undone soon enough.
David Bond, Wellington, New Zealand
I am fully in favour of a more integrated approach- the railways have really come on enormously, but I am sure that nationalisation is probably the answer for further improvements- but PLEASE lets keep the RMT and ASLEF out of it - could you imagine a return to the days of constant strikes and disputes?
Phil , Bucks, England
Secret talks my eye! It's a bit of electioneering by a beleagured Scottish Labour party. It will be dropped as soon as the polls close on 3rd May.
James Brown, Ayr, Scotland
Why should the single public-interest operator be Network Rail? There is a case for the operator to be Scottish based and answerable to the Scottish Parliament and People.
Eric Hamilton, East Kilbride, Scotland
Why do we need a test case when we know it works? For 150 years the railways were integrated until the Conservatives broke it up, and look what happened! Its time to reintegrate the whole of British Rail regardless of who owns it, not just in Scotland.
Nigel, Orpington,
The railway today costs substantially more in real terms than the subsidy paid to British Rail. It is time that the Government bit the bullet and ended this farce by bringing track and trains into single ownership and management.
Nigel Chatfield, London,
Nationalisation results in over-manning, inefficiency and the dead hand of Trades Unionism - I would prefer the Tories idea of regions run by a single private sector operator. A lot of the investment over the last few years has been prompted by safety concerns following crashes at Paddington and Selby etc. This is something not faced by the old British Rail.
Chris, Manchester, England
We need an integrated, nation-wide rail system that is capable of reliably carrying large numbers of people at reasonable prices if any progress is to be made on greenhouse gas emissions and road congestion.
As somebody who would use trains in preference to a car any day, the last twenty years have been punishing, and I usually have to go by car anyway.
Please renationalise, but with long-term and coherent planning that will not be reversed on the next political whim.
Barry P., Ichikawa, Japan
Only long distance trains are needed outside of London.London couldn't survive without trains.Jobs should be decentralised and coaches/buses could take up the job freeing up masses of capital and ending a lot of congestion caused by trains in cities like Lincoln or my city Hull.
dave, hull, uk
If people are to be persuaded away from their cars and onto public transport, an integrated, well-organised and not-for-profit infrastructure is essential.
It might also help if trains were cleaner and inconsiderate travellers more effectively contained, but I won't be holding my breath for that one!
Candice Brown, Sheffield, UK
Just ask yourselves - which countries have the finest rail systems, most courteous service, consistent on-time performance, outstanding safety records and affordable fares. France and Japan and they are publicly owned. Can one really compare the disaster that is the British rail system and claim that private enterprise is a better deal for real people ?
David Wilson, Territet, Switzerland
Well what a surprise..!! it took more than 30 years to kick in.
After they were well informed about it being a big mistake so long ago, they are finally using some grey matter. It might be a good idea to restore some of the branch lines that other lunatic killed off in the 50's, it would certainly take a load off the roads, and finally give back one of the responsibilities the goverment are supposed to be responsible for. I might even consider coming back if it really works.....( ex-pat )
Dave, Groningen, Netherlands
This is another fiasco by the people we elect to govern us - and I include politicians of all parties in this analysis. Having worked in both public and private sectors over the past 40 years, I have witnessed a deterioration of our ability to organise and manage both people and organisations. The reasons are complex but many can be traced to the changing nature of our society - the rise in political correctness, for example - and the fall in educational standards that means many people leave full-time education unable to construct a sentence or add 2 figures together. Making decisions of the magnitude that examples such as British Rail demand requires a standard of experience, judgement, determination and ability that is sadly missing from many so-called managers and this is true right down through the management structure. We must expect u-turns where major issues are concerned - and that applies to allowing sailors to publish in newspapers or renationalising the rail network.
Keith Downer, London, UK
Hooray, at last a shred of common sense - run the railways as a public SERVICE. However, the other 90 percent - actually making it work - is bound not to happen in Britain due to the usual bungling management and lying politicians
dave, Notts, UK
Andrew from Dartford is seriously deluded if he thinks nationalising industries is the way to go. Nationalised industries hardly ever make a profit, meaning the tax payer actually has to pay MORE tax to bail them out, rather than benefiting from a reduction in tax. In nationalised industries, there is absolutely no incentive to make a profit, leading to ludicrous overspends and stifled creativity from organizations happy just to maintain the status quo.
Will, Birmingham, UK
It should never have been fragmented in the first place. Hopefully if we can have a national rail system put back in place, fares will drop and it will improve integration between what are at the moment different companies running different routes.
Andrew Brown, London,
I would be in favor of any move which pays far less subsidies whilst also reducing the cost of Tickets- Paying for tickets in the interests of Shareholders rather than a NFP organisation is not in the national interest for a service that should be in the national interest.
If rail ticket prices are brought into line to make them competitve with other services (Bus, Air, Car) then more people might actually use them and services would improve.
James, Redhill, Surrey,
This is pretty excellent news. I don't feel the need to be sarcastic about it. I know, very unbritish :P
starling, Lancaster,
Yes! Par for the course I would say. Nationalisation, Privatisation, Nationalisation, then, we could have Privatisation. Just think of all the extra jobs and credence it could give to future governments. We are on the roller coaster so let's keep it going. We'll always have the previous organisation to blame when things go wrong. The government can make as much money out of it as it likes when it wants to (and from ordinary people, just like upping tax) then leave everyone high and dry when they change their minds. The commuters can still grumble and train fares can go up even higher to pay for it all Yes, there is a lot of mileage in this.
Par for the course.
M Hart, Hampshire,
as I recall the private companies receive more public funding now than BR ever enjoyed . Roll on a true Rail network one like the French enjoy would be nice ..
Nick Bastable, Deal, UK
Common sense at last a train network run by the country
for the people that's what was intended in the first place.The only problem is big silly wage payments to white
collar bosses sat on there behinds doing nothing
collecting nice big wages.let RichardBranson have the
c.e.o. job and perhaps they might just get it right.
George William Taylor, HULL, UK
Once again Scotland is to be used by a Westminster government as a testing ground!
Can the government not learn from the mistakes of the past when the Thatcher government trialled the poll tax in Scotland and killed the Scottish Conservative voye at a stroke?
Colin Macpherson, Gramat, France
Secret talks? In a NEWSPAPER?
That notwithstanding, it's about time. Get on with it. Quickly. Let's not waste time lamenting what's already been done. It's been does and yes, it was a disaster.
Now let's just get it back under control and working properly. i.e. for the people who use it.
Pleeeease.
Zarich, London, UK
Completely agree with Joseph from Edinburgh.
We need to be extremely careful about how we apply our market ideologies to key public services.
David McMillan, Glasgow,
I don't mind Scotland having a fully nationalised rail system, the country is effectively a socialist dependency of the UK anyway. But, they should not expect the English, Welsh and Northern Irish to to subsidise their new empire for the jobsworths that will inevitably attempt to recolonise the system. Try to remember the old days of British Rail - they really were a paradise for people seeing out their lives to retirement.
Paul Wakeford, Frome, England
Well it isnt working at the moment.
Splitting trains and tracks wasnt a smart move really.
But neither was nationalisation. I remember it. It was worse than it is now. Dirty late trains and filthy stations full of garbage and prostitutes.
We need a solution but nationalisation is not it.
Audi Driver, Kelso, Roxburghshire
Could be another costly handout for Scotland at the expense of the rest of the UK, which might prove "too expensive" a benefit to give to England. My cynicism might be allayed if the scheme were to be piloted in a single English rail network area instead.
Austin, London,
Great idea - and bring back steam at the same time. But seriously folks, the idea of selling bits of the rail network to different parties on the grounds of the great god "Competition" was always idiotic: if I wanted to go to Edinbirgh I wouldn't take the train to Bristol beause the price was cheaper, or the service better. And as for the dangerous and stupid idea of having the tracks managed by a different party from those who use them...
British Railways here we come...
Gerry Watts, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
This should be seriously considered and I agree the railways in Scotland are indeed a test case. Norhtern Ireland Railways, NIR is state run and has improved its tracks, stations and new trains. A lot can be learnt from this. I fully support the railways of England, Wales & Scotland becoming a nationalised railway.
P. Glass, Luton, United Kingdom
I hope this is just the start of the nationalisation process. What people in this country fail to realise is that the government when they privatise an industry receive a nice lump sum for selling it off, but from that minute till the end of time the UK loses the profits that that business contribute to the economy.
So all the profits these power, water, airport, rail companies make have been taken out of the tax intake whcih is now nicely filled by the poor british taxpayer.
Andrew, Dartford, UK
Why doesn't someone actually listen to what the rail industry thinks will work?
I'd like to see the following happen:
1. Crossrail, Thameslink 2000 and an orbital line to properly join up London's railways.
2. More parkway stations
3. Some imaginative attempts to increase train capacity (ie double deck trains, higher density desings on suburban trains)
Luke Nicolaides, London, UK,
I'm among the many who have always maintained that it was a mistake to separate train operating companies from their physical assets - trains, stations, track and signalling. But surely the genie of privatisation can't now be put back in the bottle. Leave ScotRail as a private company but carry on, as a test case, with giving it ownership and control of its assets, with the Regulator keeping a watchful eye on fares levels and service standards.
Barry, Wallington, UK
To carve up the original network into more than 20 private companies was madness. Finally someone is getting a grip on the situation. Railways are part of our national infrastructure. When privatisation happened in the 1990's there was talk of competition being a good thing butb train travel has become increasingly expensive whilst the Government (which did not make the change!) is obliged to cough up more and more in subsidies.
Pre-privatisation you could go to any station and get the same information about fares - not so now. It's a nightmare. So let's get back to an overall integrated network as soon as possible with clear lines of responsibility and a service we can be proud of.
Caroline Swift, Rochester, Kent
A single company 'serving the public interest'? I wonder if it will serve the public interest in the same way, and generate the huge returns for the economy, that British Leyland managed.
Has the Scottish Executive looked at the example of nationalized railways which already exists south of the border: the London Undeground, where fares have rocketed to the highest levels of any underground network, delays have increased exponentially and public subsidy has increased to its highest-ever levels?
Merging rail and rolling stock is a sensible idea, but to equate that with nationalization is only exacerbating the problem.
Paul Birrell, London,
Why was the name "Network Rail" chosen after the demise of Railtrack? Its initials are "NR", which can quickly be revised to mean: "National Rail". A similar thing happened in Germany after reunification. Formerly, the letters on Germany railways were DB (Deutsche Bundesbahn), but then the Wall fell and DB suddenly stood for Deutsche Bahn. Now the letters are still DB, but signify Die Bahn (The Railway). I can thus understand the cunning introduction of "NR" in Britain's case and look forward to the day when our railways are as reliable and cheap as the German ones.
Mike Mitchell, Spalding, England
"I wonder what our politicians will think is a good idea in future?"
Ask the Tories. It was their wheeze in the first place. They preferred dogma to common sense, and all their promises of better rail transport for the many have translated into better profits for the few. We have the most expensive railway journeys in Europe, easily the most confusing - some would say deliberately confusing - ticketing structure, and we're paying out £5bn per annum of our money to subsidise this typical Tory botch-up. They couldn't run a bath.
Nick Tregoning, Swansea, Wales
Politicians and other "interested" parties view the pre-privitisation through rose tinted glasses. The reality was a permanent lack of investment and unionisation. I'm sure Scotland would not allow this to recur, especially as most of the money would be coming from the English tax payer.
Barry Samways, London, UK
what was a waste, was nationalising an industry in the first place, that was un-nationalisable! Just as with the water compnies, the rail (and water) companies enjoy a monopoly that allows them to use our utilities as a license to print money whilst they let a good network run to rack and ruin.
We simply needed to run the utilities in a more economical way for the benefit of all. Look at our european neigbours such as Germany, their service is second to none, and its half nationalised!!
Some utilities have benefited from privatisation, electricity, telecoms etc. however the rail and water services have been badly neglected, the fees are astronmical and the service is rock bottom. How long are the thatcherites going to flog a dead horse trying to prove that privatisation was the answer to all our problems when in these cases it's clearly not working, to the detriment of the users, not the fat cats who contiue to rake in our cash in taxes AND fees.
Gareth, oxford,
Hallelujah!
Perhaps we might yet see a rail network of which we can once again be proud and which serves the population of these islands effectively rather than the pockets of greedy shareholders.
Can we also expect a sensible fare structure rather than the mortgage level fares that one has to pay at certain times to get to places that one can do as one person let alone two, three or four far more cheaply?
Could we put a stop to the licensed vandalism that is the frenetic sale of railway land and profiteering that followed privatisation before it is too late?
There are too many lines to mention that should never have been closed not least of all the Great Central that could so easily take a huge tonnage off the M1, M6 and surrounding roads and the north south Oxford Didcot Newbury Winchester Southampton line which could have so easily taken heavy goods traffic from the A34.
Nigel Edward-Few, CHESHAM, UK
Why not role it out over the whole country? The railways at the moment are rubbish!
Sam Comfort, Newport, UK
This is priceless, you could not make this up. We had British Rail which cost to much public money so was split up. Public money finance the new companies and lots of people made huge dividends. The tracks were then renationalised and more public money was spent and finally we may even see a new British Rail company.
What a waste of money.
I wonder what our politicians will think is a good idea in future?
Joseph Kellie, Edinburgh, Scotland
At least it is a start in the right direction, after years of mismanagement and profit grabbing, it is time that the rail transport system is returned to public control. Time to bring down the prices and get people back on the trains and off the roads. After the premature demise of steam, the privatisation of the rail system was the stupidest thing ever done, wasting billions of pounds and making millionaires overnight on the backs of the paying public. It is time that the Government takes back its responsiblility to the people to provide a safe, cheap and efficient rail network. We could have learned so much from the French...
Longbowman, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
I am an advocate of privatisation wherever possible. But the current system clearly is not working. A subsidised British Rail was the best solution and thats the way way we should go. You only need to look at the French and the TGV. Why cant we have bullet trains to take us from the peripheral areas of the UK to London.
john, Rethimno,
This is the best news for many years. It was always the greatest trick that Mrs Thatcher pulled - to get us all to pay for something we already owned - so please get on with this process quickly. One only has to look across the Channel at the pride and success of French, Spanish, German and all the other national systems to see that a modern (?) knowledge industrialised country cannot do without a 21st century fast surface transport system. The French pride in their TGV/TER systems is plain for all to see, and the prospect of now being able to travel between Paris and Madrid, Lille to Rome, Paris and Vienna at high speed without the lunacy of flying is credit to the vision of the future which we still seem to lack in the UK. Maybe, before another generation is suffocated by our geography, we will soon be able to travel on a unified system between - say Manchester , Paris or Brussels on the same train.
It really does take the strain!
John Evans, Perigueux, France
This woeful state of affairs is typical of Labour's attitude to any given problem. Throw money at it with little or no managerial control. Billions of extra taxpayers money, huge price rises for users and no discernable increase in efficiency. Now they are considering re-nationalising the network because of their poor control. This will cost the overburdened taxpayer even more money and no one ever claimed that the old system was well run or managed in the first place.
John Buckley, Hounslow, Middlesex
Here we go again!. More corrections to Blairs policies.
Perhaps this government should introduce a circle line around the UK, This would be his legacy, as it would reflect his govenments decision-making history "more spin" then "more spin" then even "more spin" then round in circles we go until we are all so dizzy, no one knows what will work
Hitler told lie upon lie until Germany believed him. We have had so much 'spin', so much so, that we cannot now remember where we were in the first place, until we return us to the orginal station.
KP, cambridge,
An excellent idea! Please extend the experiment south of the Tweed!
A Rodriguez, Staines,
Thomas the tank engine must be choo chooing in his scrapyard
Nonplussed , London, Londinium
Why ? Does anybody not remember how bad britsh rail was? severe delays dowdy looking trains customer service was a made up phrase, they had no choice they were starved of funding, and the fact we were able to get a 125 mph service at all is still looked on by many europeans, as miracle of enginnering and skill. At least with private companies we are seeing goverment funding matched by the private sector better more efficent working practices beter trains or substatially refurbished trains the fact of the matter is, that if you want european styles of train tyravel then you have to match europpean levels of investment we despite the 2.4 billion for the trains this year we are atill among the lowest invsetors in our network in the western world. If we go back to british rail it will once again be the first port of call when goverments need to cut budgets.
Shaun Cudworth , Sunderland,
Absolutely brilliant!!!! I'm over the moon and some!!! Let's hope the rest of Britain will follow soon.
Hilary Hosking, South West London,
Yup! Par for the course I would say. Nationalisation, Privatisation, Nationalisation, then, we could have Privatisation. Just think of all the extra jobs and credence it could give to future governments. We are on the roller coaster so let's keep it going. We'll always have the previous organisation to blame when things go wrong. The government can make as much money out of it as it likes when it wants to. The commuters can still grumble and train fares can go up even higher to pay for it all.
Yes, par for the course.
M Hart, Hampshire,
The fact that more money is being spent in subs to the private rail companies than when BR was around says it all. It does not take much thinkimg of what could have been done if just half that money was invested in BR. Yes it does not garatee that the money would have been wisely spent but it would have been kept in the public purse, not private companies profits.
The is a situation were the genral public in the shape of the "State" are responsible for... armed forces, law and order health education transport housing...... these issues cannot be subcontracted out to private companies in what ever form they take.
The last few years have shown that the whole of socity has to take its responciblies and not opped out.
T.J.Sullivan, london,
We only have to look to our closest European neighbours to see that government-run rail networks actually do work. We should be embarrased by their cleanliness, efficiency and value for money. So, please God, let this happen, and have proper rail reform at last.
Oh, and while we're on the subject, can ANYONE explain the logic behind the fact that many return rail tariffs in the UK are cheaper than a single?
Alasdair, Dundee, Scotland
Its common sense to have a fully unified, centrally controlled, railway network system and it can be run efficiently. We have to make sure we have the right people at the top. There is one company who have been going in the wrong direction and been turned around and even made profitable (without lowering quality or standards) with the right man in charge, it can be done. This is not just any company, this is M&S.
I can fly from Stanstead to Montpellier for £18 return but the train from Cambridge to London is £22 return, it just doesnt seem right.
Alan , Newmarket, suffolk
Sorry, Julian, but private separate ownership of tracks and operators has been a great success compared with 50 years of previous public underinvestment and political interference. Use any measure: capital spend, overall safety (passenger miles travelled is the best), flexible routes. The cost is a function of delayed investment and wasted government spending propping up other industries - how wbout the £600m wasted on keeping Rover alive not to mention the billions spent on British Leyland etc. And don't be fooled, local and regional travel elsewhere in W Europe costs just as much and is equally as delay and accident ridden.
Peter Bench, London,
The railway has been hamstrung by health and safety so that its maintenance costs are sky high then had highly overweight trains foisted on it which break up the track and have added a billion in power costs .Unless a ruthless commonsense approach is followed and much lighter trains are built ,heath regs are modified and signalling moved 150 years forward there really is no hope for the railways.running a museum is always expensive.
graham edlin, london, uk
A clock watcher always works for himself, regardless of whether he is supposed to be working for shareholders or the public good. It still takes a team of six people to adjust the platform TV cameras on Biggleswade station - this is the heart of the problem. Until there's a change in the culture which allows such waste and of course life-threatening mistakes, it makes no difference whom you _say_ owns the railways.
Old style management couldn't fix this. New style management by buzzword hasn't been able to fix it either. Perhaps what's needed is a dose of John Lewis style ownership. But of course, the unions would never accept such a reform.
Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK
Scotland would be a good place to try this(like the poll tax!!) the train network is small and the Scots seem to like being dependant up on (English funded) state funds for all maner of services, still if hopefully the SNP prevail then they will get to make that choice for themselves and fund it like wise
Philip Jowett, Midlands, United Kingdom
Just one point; can we bury the myth that Network Rail is "not for profit". In fact it's very much about making a profit, the difference is that because there are no shareholders the profit is not dissipated in dividends. It's there to reinvest in the railway
A. Laycock, Brighton, UK
The only reason the railway gets three times as much subsidy now is because of the mess it was in to start with.
Run down by successive Governments over 40 years, both red and blue. Everything in this country is meaured by its eqivalent amount of hospital beds, and beds, not railways win elections.
Stuart Irving, Carlisle,
wow, i guess socialism isn't dead. hey, any of you people listen to richard branson discuss the lake district crash? the new, slick trains his private company spent big bucks on saved lives, while the state owned network rail can't maintain a track. Rail is not as bad compared to other continental countries as you think it is, and a lot of the problem is due to the endless UK economic and real-estate boom that means ridership is surging more than anywhere else in the continent.
keith, london,
Well, who would have expected private companies to ignore all other aspects of the service and run the railways with the intention of making only a profit?!
Serioulsy, this is long overdue, as is the renationalisation of all other public services privatised by the Thatcher government. Can anyone argue against the fact that if instead of going into the pockets of the fat cats, the profits generated by water, gas, electricity, public transport and telecom companies were going back into the economy, our tax burdens would be less?
Pete North, manchester,
lets be honest, which is above most mps. richard branson run a good record shop. We should have bought the railway back when the share prices crashed, but never too late. And heres an idea, to get voters back to the ballot box, introduce a mini referendum at the same time, issues such as opening hours, casinos . I think a lot of people would choose spending the lottery money on buying the railways back rather than the obscsene waste the olympics offers.
kenny, hove,
We've tried running trains in the public setcor - abysmal -and the private sector - worse. Seems we cant do trains. Scrap them, concrete over the tracks and use them as motorways (and bury the First Great Western board in the concrete)
julian, london, uk
I can't afford to travel by train. Anything's going to be better than the bus. Please let it be affordable again.
Muriel, krrrispy@hotmail.co.uk,
Nationalisation should only lead to an improvement in the railway system which appears to being milked dry by the private operators. Railways are already being subsidised by the tax payer so why let profit hungry entrepeneurs clean up the cash? Service before profits would benefit all.
And bring back more goods trains thereby helping to improve road travel.
Antony Peters, Limassol, Cyprus
Following the senseless deliberate run-down by Beeching, and the disaster which was Thatcher....is some one, some where, finally acquiring common sense ?
Passenger rail should be run as a public service....as it cannot be run at a profit .....the present system merely transfers cash , in the form of subsidies,from the tax payer to the shareholders.... untenable and iniquitous!
Ron Wilcox, Pai, Thailand
It may prove too late, but it is at least it offers a smidgin of hope that we can bring our rail infrastructure back up to European standards and who knows? Perhaps we can lure the obese, petrol heads away from their beloved, polluting, computer-managed tin cans.
Peter Day, Doncaster, UK
What a great idea. Why stop with railways? Why not re-nationalise the phone network, too. It has some "damaging fragmentation", doesn't it? I'm sure that Gerry Doherty would think waiting a year for the Post Office to allocate you a phone would be a small price to pay for a return to socialism.
jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/US
Woohoo! (well, it can't get any worse!)
Starling, Lancaster,