Tom Bawden in New York
2 for 1 tickets to Singin' In The Rain, this coming Monday. Book now

There was encouraging news for the growing army of Google-haters yesterday when a leading internet advertising researcher suggested that the search engine’s stranglehold on online promotions was looser than he had expected.
Bill Tancer, a research analyst at Hitwise, the internet research firm, said that eBay’s decision to pull all its advertising from Google in the US had had only a small impact on the “traffic” flowing from the search engine to the online auctioneer’s site.
Some 9.6 per cent of eBay visitors came from Google on Tuesday, the first full day that the boycott was in effect, compared with 10.6 per cent on the previous Tuesday, Mr Tancer said.
“Before I pulled the data, I was expecting a bigger drop given the drastic removal of sponsored listing ads by eBay,” he said.
He added that that the impact of eBay’s advertising withdrawal was reduced by the fact that 25 per cent of users visiting the internet auctioneer from Google do so after searching for eBay, rather than by clicking on one of the “sponsored links” that appear next to other search results.
The data suggests that Google may be less powerful than people thought, at a time when the search engine is seeking to widen its empire – and drawing fresh criticism almost every day as a result of its perceived growing dominance.
eBay’s decision to pull its advertising with Google came after it learnt of the search giant’s plan to gatecrash its user conference in Boston this week to promote CheckOut, a rival to eBay’s PayPal payment service.
Google later cancelled the party following eBay’s advertising moratorium.
These aggressive sales tactics have helped to cultivate the image of Google as a corporate bully with big brother tendencies.
The party it planned came just days after a report by Privacy International, the London-based advocacy group, labelled the search engine “hostile to privacy”.
The draft report identified several companies as posing substantial threats to privacy, with Google ranking as the most hostile to privacy because it keeps data on user searches for months after they have been conducted. eBay was found to be one of the least hostile.
Privacy is a big concern to politicians and consumer groups alike. The US Federal Trade Commission has decided for the first time to include “consumer protection” matters in its investigation into the competition issues surrounding Google’s planned $3.1 billion (£1.6 billion) takeover of DoubleClick, the online advertising company. The FTC will shortly decide whether to extend its initial review of the deal into a more formal inquiry.
Meanwhile, other groups are fighting back as they see Google threatening to take large slices of their business.
After Google spent nearly $1.7 billion on YouTube, the video sharing website, companies such as Viacom, which had previously largely turned a blind eye to copyright issues, began to demand recompense.
Yesterday it emerged that eBay will cut selling fees for its cheapest items and will not raise fixed-income fees this summer as competition from the likes of Google lured away users. Between June 19 and August 5 eBay transaction fees from items that sell for $25 or less will be cut to 4.5 per cent from 5.25 per cent.
Multibillion-dollar battlers
–– Google’s shares were priced at $85 when it was floated on Nasdaq in August
2004, giving the California-based search company a value of $23 billion.
Yesterday its shares were trading at just over $506, making Google worth
almost $158 billion. Last August they were $363.
–– eBay was founded in 1995 in California by Pierre Omidyar. It was floated in
September 1998 at $18 a share and was worth $714 million. Within a week the
shares had risen to $143, valuing the company at more than $5 billion but
that was before the dot-com crash. eBay is now valued at $43 billion and
yesterday its shares were worth $31.93
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Meta-search engine Ixquick.com's simple solution: "If the data is not stored, users privacy can't be breached.
We are the first search engine to stop recording any privacy details of our users.
Have a look! www.ixquick.com
Alex van Eesteren, New York,
It's funny how people think taht using google will help them make more money by clicking on the sponsored links. I have NEVER bouth anything through a link from google. I do my reserach, find the sites I want, stick em on my faves and then another day I buy something if I want to. All in all Google is great for what it was made of and Ebay has been quite irritating in many ways. They have been improving their site and its better but they still need to be more customer friendly.
Oh and why is nobody mentioning the fact taht if you are a seller on Ebay using Paypal you pay the same people twice the fees? If it's teh same company they should incorporate Paypal into Ebay and consolidate the fees when used with a heavy discount. People would like it and Ebay would get moads of positive publicity but right now they are just another money grabbing corporation who has the cheek of telling others that they are making too much money! lol
Alex K, Manchester, UK
dogpile.com = one great search engine
Carla J, Falmouth, MA,
Well, if you're not going to use Google for the reasons stated above, you definitely need to include Yahoo, AOL, and Microsoft in the list (all three of which complied in some form with a US subpoena asking for user query data...but Google refused to comply and instead took the battle to court and won).
For another perspective on the Privacy International Report, you may want to read this:
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/privacy-international-loses-all-credibility/
I like google and I do think they try hard to not "be evil" but they are a big company now and I think privacy concerns are warranted. That being said, to say that they are the worst of the worst when it comes to privacy protection is laughable and uninformed.
Michelle, San Francisco, USA
Perhaps Google can start their own online marketplace and give eBay a run for its money. eBay sellers are dying to get away from eBay and into a marketplace that eBay used to be - person to person - not all the conglomerates that eBay now supports - Sears, SharperImage, Dell, etc. - Please Google. Give us an alternative!!!
Mary, Rochester, USA
Quality of search is not dependent on what is paid for . But those that are willing to pay often have something useful to offer. Natural searches can produce a lot of rubbish while the better results are buried deeper in the pages of the search engine. At least a paid for click can bring that website's presence closer to the top, and then it is down to the individual if they want to click or not; if it's not right you click away and it is that companies fault for not making their message clear enough. The reason ebay pulling its advertising had no impact is probably ecause ebay is already a global brand well recognised by hundreds of millions and they have the benefit of spending millions on making it search engine friendly ensuring it will naturally appear at the top of any natural search engine search. I think Google offers an unrivalled service allowing smaller companies to get excellent exposure in a way that has in the past been cost prohibitive.
Louise Cheesebrough, London,
They're both the same: eBay does not protect the innocent (in a transaction that goes wrong and there is a clear culprit) and Google insists on showing links to evil websites where one can be abused (and no amount of asking makes them remove those links even when they're shown compelling evidence). I dislike them both and use them both still b/c what is the alternative?
Bela, London,
Peter, London - since when has pornography ben illegal to search for and look at in London?
JB, London,
Google is absurdly over-valued. I came to this site by typing "times" into Google, simply because it is easier to remember than a url. It is just a search box with a few not very effective ads, and the results no better or worse than anyone else can achieve. I don't begrudge the founders their billions because they have provided a useful free service. But the long term business is quite small. The Times, which provides content people actually want to read, is in a much better position, if only it can get its business model right.
Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
Wake up people, google search is not that superior really, don't overhype it. It may be years ago, but other search engines are often just as good nowadays. As for competition, it usually requires regulators to intervene, otherwise do you see companies like ebay voluntarily invite competitors to come and take a slice of their cake? For Google, it's just a really stupid (they thought too highly of themselves) move to try to gatecrash paypal's conference. Highlighting that they are a bit of a bully themselves nowadays, and hence more Google hatred. Try too hard and you'll get the opposite result.
arctanck, Reading,
Well said David Newton. I don't understand why it is that people wish to punish Google and eBay for doing well. There is a reason they are market leaders - they are better than the competition. It doesn't matter how old an industry is or how powerful the existing businesses are, if a new company can perform better than the rest then they will succeed. As it stands there are no others good enough to compete with Google and eBay. They deserve their success.
David Iredale, Warrington, England
Google is sliding ever closer to the Yahoo model of ranking search results by which firms pay the most ad fees.
At least Yahoo did it from the beginning, and openly.
Google is trying to ride the trust gained from their original 'user relevance' result return model to lull users into complacency as they become a far more intrusove, and controlling, Big Brother than any government.
Scott, San Angelo, Texas
I wonder when the eBay bubble will burst. For various reasons, I sell on eBay and find them to be the most customer UNFRIENDLY businesses I have seen in 61 years in the business world. Overall, the fees are increasing (I think to please Wall Street), most items don't sell, 'sniping' is rampant and the effort is labor intensive and so on. GOOGLE ... PLEASE COMPETE WITH eBay!
Rod Miller, Rocky River, OHio USA
Ebay will not allow sellers to use Google checkout on Ebay auctions.
IOt is Ebay that is anti competition. Ebay desperately needs competition. They are arrogant and miserable to deal with for sellers.
The fee reduction will be for the slowest tinme of the year only. It is an attempt to lure sellers into writing auctions that will not sell. Ebay will collect the listing fees and grow fatter.
Nat Turnerski, Paxinos , PA
dogpile ROCKS!
Clark, melbourne, IA
You can get there quicker with www.tyuiop.com !!
David Cardale, Tetbury, UK
Nat is quite correct in that it is Ebay that most needs competition. Because auctions gain value from an agregate of bidders, Ebay won the first-to-market lottery and have pretty well been resting on their laurels counting cash ever since. They've done precious little to add value, mostly just boosting their profits by shaking down their sellers.
Chris G, New York, NY
Anyone who thinks Ebay is anything but a scam company is a moron. Go Google. Get RID of Ebay and it's ilk from the web and we can all take off the rubber boots and make money. Talk about oppression, be an ebay retailer for a week-the company is no better than the carpetbaggers of the depression era. Pure scum.
Love to see Google Checkout lead to an online auction to SMASH Ebay and drive them out of business entirely. Be a great day.
Shame on you fools.
Dave, Lihue, USA/Hawaii
Keep your socialist mitts off our free market, please. Google and Ebay are doing fine and so are the millions of customers who gladly use each of them. Don't like Ebay?, Shop or sell elsewhere. Don't like Google? Search some place else. That is the glory of freedom.
David, Newton, IA
What is teh point of the last paragraphi ifyou dont bring into account splits. Or maybe you could explain Market Cap. It is just all over the place there and for uniformed reader it is very misleading.
Greg, Orange, DE
Google is everything which is wrong with the America. It is a bully like George Soros raping other nations of wealth. It is a con job like Bill Gates hording the markets of the world and it is Rockefeller globalist making excuses for tyrant communists.
Google hates every foundation of Western Europe, England, Canada and America. I will not use their bigot ridden site as it bows to the butchers of Peking enslaving the Chinese citizenry.
Lame Cherry, Watertown, USA, NY
Well said!! Peter from London. I don't have the knowledge to remove the Google programs. But I DO NOT use Google , and WILL NOT use Google until they embrace freedom, responsibility and denounce despotic, totalitarian censorship.
Fred, River, U.S.A.
"These aggressive sales tactics have helped to cultivate the image of Google as a corporate bully with big brother tendencies."
That, and websearch censorship in China
Don't be evil... Right?
/sarc
Kristen, Tacoma, WA, USA
The friendly anarchy of the internet has been ebbing away for years. Adverts are the cost of the electronic free lunch users have become accustomed to. The money and power flowing into companies like Google bring the same opportunities for abuse and corruption which have befallen politicians and big businessmen across the globe. When ad-filtering software companies turn into merger and takeover targets, the end will be nigh
t_w_bhf, Cheltenham, UK
>At least when you type something in that you want to find on google, you usually find it. Can't say the same for MSN, or yahoo.
Give me one example of a better search result on Google vs. the same search on Yahoo. I bet you can't.
Peter, Chonburi, Thailand
Ebay will not allow sellrs to use Google checkout on Ebay auctions.
IOt is Ebay that is anti competition. Ebay desperately needs competition. They are arrogant and miserable to deal with for sellers.
The fee reduction will be for the slowest tinme of the year only. It is an attempt to lure sellers into writing auctions that will not sell. Ebay will collect the listing fees and grow fatter.
Nat Turnerski, Paxinos , PA
Regarding "the balance of power", More government intervention is never a good solution. The public has the power to just not patronize these companies if they so choose. That's what we call the free market. Anyway, if the government is already in these companies " back pocket" then how can the public take control by legal means?
Anna, Thompson Ridge,, NY USA
I'm actually not certain I could live or do my job without Google. Gmail is by far the best email program in existence, so good that there's no need for a client like Outlook or Thunderbird to manage my inbox. The link between Google Notebook, Documents, Calendar and Gmail is so good that I can keep track of my finances, appointments, thoughts and communications through one username and password.
A company in the habit of creating such a vastly superior product (in my opinion) will be successful for a long time. It may take a revisit to Google's existing revenue stream (pay-per-click advertisements), but as long as so many people are hooked on Google "products," they will have quite a bit of leeway in terms of how to make their money.
I also enjoy the disagreement about Google privacy policies. For every person who is bothered by Google's tracking of their data, there's another person, like me, who loves the fact that Google knows what I usually search for.
Nate, Rochester NY,
At least when you type something in that you want to find on google, you usually find it. Can't say the same for MSN, or yahoo. plus, google's advanced search features are impressive. Just a nice clean search engine. They are really on the cutting edge. Then there's google video, google suggest, pretty handy 800 GOOG 411,
Google labs, hmm Google earth is great! talk about handy , and cool. lets see, Gmail. . scholar... Etc and more, all I hear is bash bash bash, maybe you brits & libs should start worrying about CCTV cams, and countless other BB items in your own country, and stop bashing...
Terence, Casper, WY, USA
I love google. I love their mission, culture, and vision. Google seems to be one of the best things that has happened to individuals wanting to access information.
I also love competition - so I am glad to see that Google will not have a monopoly on this market. This way, Google can ensure it is consistent with one of its slogans: "Don't be Evil."
Manny, Tampa, Florida
Why is everybody mad at Google over this? Peel back the onion folks and have a look inside at what's really going on. eBay controls the biggest online payment service, PayPal, and everyone who uses it knows they charge ridiculously exorbitant fees. But they can since there's no competition. Google is trying to give consumers and merchants an alternative to PayPal with its new "Checkout" service.
Where is the other source of major criticism for Google? Microsoft, which accuses the company of anti-competitive practices. Hah! The desktop PC monopolist has finally met its match so they start to cry. Pathetic. Folks, chill. Google is unambiguously a force for good for consumers if for no other reason than they are finally giving us more choice when it comes to how we use computers and the internet. Competition is tough for companies, but GREAT for consumers!
Rolfe, New York,
Perhaps all advertising has less impact on consumer behaviour than is commonly thought. Lower price or better quality might stimulate sales of staple products more efficiently.
LM Picard, Toronto, ON
Shaun has it right. You would have to be living under a rock to not know about eBay and have to use a search engine to find it.
Jack, Boozeville, KY
I once did a search for "Paris" on Google and the very first Sponsored Link read "Buy Paris" with a link going to ebay. I didn't try to find out if I could buy Paris, France or Paris Hilton but I digress.
Maybe ebay finally realized that surfers don't click on absurd ads.
Jon P., Vancouver, Canada
Google is just like a socialist leader that gets power. Sound good at first but they just want more and more til they are tyrants which unfortunately happens all too fast.
jus chillin, san francisco, ca
i'm sick of the 'if it's Google i'ts better' line of thinking and would enjoy seeing them get de-glamorized.
Mike, Arlington , Texas
What is everyone using instead?
stocky, West Chester, PA
I have not and will not use google and suggest other people use alternative services.
Russ, Chicago Area, Illinois
Google (are egomaniacs capable of learning from the likes of AOL??) is going to bite off more than it can chew in its' quest to become a mega-corp.
By the way, "PERCENT" is one word.
Nikkofly, Salem, OR
Google's not all that. I'' m predicting a humble-pie banquet for these arrogant bullies.
Janey, culver city, CA
Larry Brewer
Clinton did not give the Chinese technology. What he did do was allow two US aerospace companies to preform a detailed failure analysis and reliability analysis of there launch systems. This help was far worse. This help taught the Chinese to understand the institutional processes neccessary to design, manufacture, and use complex aerospce systems. This knowledge took the US some 40 years to develop, from 1950 through the 1990's. Giving some one a gyroscope is no big deal when you turn around and give them the ability to design a gyroscope. I perfect example are the F14's that Iran still owns from the time the Shaw bought them from the US. The Iranians can not build the spare parts to keep them flying.
David, Atlanta, US
Honestly, I don't understand what makes a person need to click on an ad in the first place. If I really want to buy something, I know where to look.
Did I mention that I'm using Firefox with Adblock installed, so I see no ads in the first place? Poo on you, Google.
Casey S, R. Cucamonga, CA, USA
I stopped using Google about a year ago when they went along with the Chinese government control of content for the Chinese people. I felt that wqs outrageous for them to do. Businesswise they had no choice in that market, but I stopped using Goggle anyway. I use Web Ferrett, and remarkably, it has more than either Google, MSN, Yahoo, or Google combined, and I don't get all that spam and junk on the page.
Anyway, that's what I do. I'm not computer savvy, but I hope that helps in my small way.
RM, Missoula, Molntana
Im just going to use Yahoo.com
Mario, Plano, Texas/ U.S.
First of all....I've been accused of making everything political. But it amazes me that when google bends its own rules to do business in China, every free speech liberal in the country is outraged at the censorship, privacy issues that google has violated.
But when Bill Clinton gave them rocket launch technology... No big deal.
Am I missing something?
As far as the google ads are concerned, they are a waste of time. I have all the vigra I'll ever need. Often they are exactly opposite in relation to your search. Looking up "green information" regarding SUV gas milage, CO2, vehical averages. The ads will be trying to sell you a Hummer!
Larry Brewer, OP KS, USA
Google or no Google, Hitwise was able to get this data by your ISPs selling it to them. Your ISP knows more about you than Google...and, they profit from selling your "private" browsing habits. There was a recent Wired magazine article on the topic.
Andrew, Houston, TX
More companies should break away from Google for the sanctity of the internet. Google looks to be taking over the internet.
Mario, Plano, Texas/ U.S.
The majority of people who use the internet now have an ebay account,, weather they use it or not.
There are a limited number of internet users as France afnic.fr (French government body for the internet) proved when only allowing one .fr domain name to each user or company. they found over a period of 5 years the internet in France to beginning decrease as all users had the maxium of .fr internet websites,,, they had to counter act this by changing there laws and allowing 5 website .fr per person or company.
It proved the internet was limited and users can decrease or become dormant
ebay has all its accounts now ( probably most are dormant) I know I have only used mine once in 4 years
I used to be a registrar in france of .fr but it was so limited the amount of business as regards to only one .fr domain name per company , I gave up .fr sales completely they were not worth the effort
Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire
Ebay and Google are both as bad as each other.
They need to be controlled.
But governments who receive a percentage of their take and political contributions, effectively bribes, from large Companies will not do anything.
The public will need to do so by legal means.
The balance of power has shifted too far from the public and into big Corporations.
K Urban, London, UK
Many of the links from Google to eBay I've used either go to ended auctions or to long lists of auctions of doubtful relevance to the link's title. Therefore, I've come to regard eBay links on Google as wastes of precious mouse-clicks. I'm not surprised there's been virtually no drop. Maybe if eBay had spent some time critically analyzing where the Google-originated mouse-clicks actually went, eBay might have had a better experience with its ads on Google. As it is, I think eBay squandered a golden opportunity.
Tom Kendall, Wilmette, IL
It's not surprising at all that little traffic flows from Google ad-links to eBay. eBay has built itself up to be an almost universally known web presence, while google ads (like most ads, i would say) are a primarily a method of delivering NEW websites/products to people. IF people already know about eBay, they will head directly to the site, rather than following a link.
So people saying this is indicative of the beginning of the decline of google.. you're wrong.
Shaun Lazzari, Nottingham, England
Although I have a soft spot for Google, it seems to me that they are following a pattern that microsoft followed a number of years ago. With law-suits hitting them from every angle too, microsoft were using their financial muscle to eat up everything that threatened or competed with them. I just hope that Google isn't following the same path or the internet will fall out of love with them.
Mark Wilkinson, Lisburn, N. Ireland
Perhaps the eBay Google ads were never successful because they just weren't relevant. Searching for Tokyo, for example, would bring up such rubbish as "Find great deals on Tokyo on eBay!" and "Buy Tokyo on eBay!"
That's why I've not seen them lately. Thank goodness, although some of the truly stupid ones did used to give me a giggle. "Buy Johnny Depp on eBay!" Yes, please...!
Aeryn, Lancashire, UK
Knowing how intrusive and helpful to oppressive regimes and law enforcement Google is, I will never use them again and I have removed all references and links from my computer. I hate any Big Brother, no matter what his name. For the record, I am not looking up bomb-making, pornography or other illegal information, but I do NOT want to be kept track off, even if I just want to find an old (clean!)movie on DVD. It is nobody's business but mine.
Peter, London,
I can live without clicking on Google ,
If quality of search depends on paid advertising .. then..I do not get what I am looking for .I get what is paid for ... when people start opening their eyes ..it will be like the needle hitting the big balloon .
Also remeber the background and performance of the CEo ..at Sun ..and Novell ... a nothing .
Time will tell
elsa, Boston, USA